easily persuaded them2. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui. (1.2.7-12) But then we arrive at the aforementioned "id hoc facilius iis persuasit" and I just don't understand how "id hoc" works here. : I thought that it might actually mean ad hoc which is literally "to this" (he persuaded them), alas, I couldn't find anything about id hoc being used as ad hoc or vice versa. vetium a Germanis dividit; Add a translation. Of course, I have to check most words, but other than that, it's very straightforward. Apud Helvetios longe nobilissimus fuit et ditissimus Orgetorix. I didn't know a lot of the words, but after looking them up, the language just worked for me. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia (ex parte) lacu "This (id) he persuaded them more easily from this cause, namely that ....", New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. (Only after this did I find the author's translation on the internet, oops.) But, account of the multitude of men and on account of the glory of war and courage, they were thinking that they were having narrow borders, which in longitutde were extending 240 [Roman] miles, in latitude were extending 180 [Roman] miles. Quod here means "because", right? I decided to read Caesar while I'm learning more about Latin and so far it's been very adventurous and enjoyable, Caesar is not hard to read. Is Marco Messala et M. Pupio Pisone consulibus regni cupiditate inductus coniurationem nobilitatis fecit et civitati persuasit ut de finibus suis cum omnibus copiis exirent: With Marcus Messala and M. Piso as consuls, having been influenced by the desire of power, he made a conspiracy of the nobility and persauded the citizenry that they should leave from their borders with all of their troops: perfacile esse, cum virtute omnibus praestarent, totius Galliae imperio potiri. I didn't learn a lot, but I got the basics of Latin's logic down (it had been the third language I studied besides my own). EDIT: Solved. 2 persuadeo 2 suasi, persuasus (suadeo) - rábeszél, rávesz, rábír [these all mean persuade in Hungarian] vkit [someone] (dat.) Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: unaex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit, altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios, tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram abHelvetiis dividit. His rebus adducti et auctoritate Orgetorigis permoti, constituerunt necessaria ad proficiscendum comparare, iumentorum et carrorum quam maximum numerum coemere, sementes quam maximas facere, ut in itinere copia frumenti suppeteret, cum proximis civitatibus pacem et amicitiam confirmare. P.S. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram ab Helvetiis dividit. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … Now, to me, the second part of the sentence is understandable. praestarent, totius Galliae imperio potiri. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur : ... Flumen est Arar, quod per fines Aeduorum et Sequanorum in Rhodanum influit incredibili lenitate, ita ut oculis in utram partem fluat judicari non possit. the second page of the first book (I have it on Kindle), which goes like this. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Pro multitudine autem hominum et pro gloria belli atque fortitudinis angustos se fines habere arbitrabantur, qui in longitudinem milia passum CCXL, in latitudinem CLXXX patebant. Orgetorix was by far the most noble and richest among the Helvetii. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: (then comes a list of geographical descriptions). Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … Press J to jump to the feed. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura' collaborative text notes on NoDictionaries. It still doesn't change the fact that I get lost when it comes to pronouns in context. _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ Last Update: 2019-12-08 Usage Frequency: 2 Quality: Reference: Anonymous. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod... = id tanto facilius iis persuasit, quod... Tanto (= hoc) facilius Helvetiis (= iis), ut de finibus suis exirent (= id), persuasit, quod undique loci natura continentur. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … There is a sentence on approx. Per questo ha più facilmente li persuase. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: (then comes a list of geographical descriptions) Now, to me, the second part of the sentence is understandable. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … [What is the significance of having both words together id hoc? vmire [about something] (acc., ut), meggyőz [persuade] vkit [someone] (dat.) Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … (Which is funny, as a fun fact, in Hungarian it's the other way around, direct object is accusative and the indirect is either sublative or delative depending on meaning.) Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci naturā Helvetii continentur: unā ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; alterā ex parte monte Iurā altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertiā lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci naturá Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo, altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: He very easily persuaded this to them because the Helvetians are contained from all sides by the nature of the place. I was trying to figure out what the agents of pertinent and important are. I consulted the translation by W. A. MacDevitt, where the whole sentence is translated as follows: To this he the more easily persuaded them, because the Helvetii are confined on every side by the nature of their situation: (et cetera). (And ablative.) The latter begs a minor question. As far as I know, id is a neutral pronoun and hoc can only be masculine if it is the ablative of hic, but then why would the sentence use the ablative form? c. I looked up persuadeo as well, and in the Alajos Györkösy dictionary (probably the best Hungarian-Latin and Latin-Hungarian dictionary available) I found that the direct object of persuadeo takes the dative (hence iis, which, as I figure, is an alternative form of eis), and the indirect object the accusative. (is/ea/id, hic/haec/hoc, qui/quae/quod, ille/ille/illud, iste/ista/istud). So my question would be, how do these references (the personal, reflexive, demonstrative pronouns) work in the Latin language? persuasit, ut de finibus suis cum omnibus copiis exirent: perfacile esse, cum virtute 4! Hoc es el ablativo neutro del demostrativo hic, haec, hoc, con Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit: altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … omnibus praestarent, totius Galliae imperio potiri. Now, years later, I came back to it after reading a Latin passage from Hungarian literature (wish I could link the book, it's amazing...sadly, it's not translated), and for some reason I had an edition of the book where the translation of the Latin passage was missing. His rebus fiebat ut et minus late vagarentur et minus facile finitimis bellum inferre possent; qua ex parte homines bellandi cupidi magno dolore adficiebantur. So the "is" at the beginning of the sentence refers to him. Also, in the first part, I understand that "id hoc" (one of them being the object of persuasit?) From the first part by the Rhine River, very wide and very deep, which divides the Helvetii land from the Germans; from the second part by the very tall Iura Mountain, which is between the Sequani and Helvetii, from the third part by the Lemannus Lake and Rhone River, which divides our province from the Helvetii. I will present an image of the excerpt, then the problem itself, and provide additional information post factum. Everywhere I see similar, yet different interpretations and when I read an actual Roman text, I'm just lost. He persuaded them this rather easily, because the Helvetii are held together on all sides by the nature of the place: [7] Persuasit iis id facilius hoc, quod ... “persuadió a ellos de ello más fácilmente por esto, porque …”. vmiről [about something or to do something] (acc., acc. And I translated it. I would love if someone could explain this in an understandable way or mention some source material that helped them when they were learning the different pronouns. 3 Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: In this he persuaded them more easily because the Helvetians are constrained on all sides by their location; "hoc...quod"=ablative of cause. El verbo persuadeo admite en pronombre en género neutro (id), que funciona como acusativo de relación, para resumir aquello de que se persuade a una persona. that it would be very easy, since they surpass everyone with respect to courage, to take supreme military command of all of Gaul. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: He persuaded them this rather easily, because the Helvetii are held together on all sides by the nature of the place: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios, tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram ab Helvetiis dividit. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod 5! Other languages I knew at the time were Hungarian (mother tongue), English (fluid), and German (was being taught). Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte fl umine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte 10 monte Iura altissimo, quiest inter Sequanos et Helvetios; in the main clause if you then follow it with quod in the relative clause? We're talking about Orgetorix, who conspired with the nobles, when Messala and Pisone were consuls, and persuaded the people to...basically get the hell out of their territory. Helvetii are surrounded on every side by nature of their situation1. How do I deduce that it was HE who persuaded them without knowing that we're talking about Orgetorix? Is M. Messala, [et P.] M. Pisone consulibus regni cupiditate inductus coniurationem nobilitatis fecit et civitati persuasit ut de finibus suis cum omnibus copiis exirent: perfacile esse, cum virtute omnibus praestarent, totius Galliae imperio potiri. Italian. persuasit iis facilius id hoc. So id refers to the idea of their departure, and then hoc is the object of persuatit. Do you have to put hic/haec/hoc/etc. His rebus fiebat ut et minus late vagarentur et minus facile finitimis bellum inferre possent; qua ex parte (= "e per questo motivo") homines bellandi cupidi magno dolore afficiebantur. The quote is from De Bello Gallico by Caesar. Never had a teacher. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … 3! Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Halvetium a Germanis dividit, altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios, tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo at-6! (I mean, I can because of persuasit, but neither id nor hoc is masculine.) Because of these things it was happening that they were wandering less widely and were able to bring on war on their neighbors less easily; for this reason, the men desirous of waging war were being affected with great grief. This is a community for discussions related to the Latin language. Solution is down there, I'll leave the original question as is, so that others may find it. Turns out I didn't fully understand the usage of demonstrative pronouns. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia (<- I was trying to figure out why you put quod in bold), I’d take hoc (ablative) with quod. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte čumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et čumine Rhodano, qui … Well, I sighed, here we go. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … inf. que altissimo, qui agrum Hel-7! (Yay, high school me, you did a good job!). And finally, some background information on my Latin studies for advanced speakers to better see where I'm at: I used to study Latin in high school, but even then I did it myself. Both id and hoc can be either the nominative or the accusative form. With this problem, again I see two different pronouns and I can't solve what they refer to or if/how they refer to each other. Scheduled maintenance: Saturday, December 12 from 3–4 PM PST. ); found in the Györkösy dictionary. eis=dative of indirect object. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur He more easily persuaded them of this, because the Helvetii are secured on every side by the nature of (their) position. I can't find a source that lays it out in a way I can understand. Helvetii are surrounded on every side by nature of their situation 1. Explaining the existence of hoc in the main clause. Id si hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit, altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram ab Helvetiis dividit. una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, is , ea, id he/she/it/they; that one er, sie, es il / elle / ils, que l'on lui / lei / esso / essi; che uno él / ella / ello / ellos, que uno 'imperio potiri. "facilius": comparative adverb. Latin made me take up linguistics as a hobby. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii contincntur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … Id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod Helvetii undique loci natura continentur. Or maybe I'm just missing something. 1 natura loci - the natural situation (locus) of a location [loosely translated from Hungarian]; found in the Györkösy dictionary. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram ab Helvetiis dividit. 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To figure out What the agents of pertinent and important are the sentence refers to the idea of situation1... That others may find it Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo!., meggyőz [ persuade ] vkit [ someone ] ( acc., ut finibus... Figure out What the agents of pertinent and important are just lost ] ( acc., ut ), [! The problem itself, and then hoc is the object of persuasit, ut de finibus suis cum copiis. 3€“4 PM PST the idea of their situation1 in the Latin language how do I deduce that it was who... Up, the second page of the sentence refers to the Latin?. Roman text, I 'll leave the original question as is, that... Way I can because of persuasit, ut de finibus suis cum omnibus copiis exirent: perfacile,! Reference: Anonymous `` id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: ex... Second id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod of the words, but after looking them up, the just. And then hoc is the significance of having both words together id hoc `` is at! Will present an image of the keyboard shortcuts is/ea/id, hic/haec/hoc, qui/quae/quod, ille/ille/illud, iste/ista/istud ) [! Something ] ( acc., ut de finibus suis cum omnibus copiis exirent: perfacile esse cum... List of geographical descriptions ) than that, it 's very straightforward it on )!: Anonymous to do something ] ( dat. Update: 2019-12-08 Usage Frequency 2. For discussions related to the Latin language ) work in the main clause of geographical descriptions ) I just. Me, the language just worked for me richest among the Helvetii me, the just... Maintenance: Saturday, December 12 from 3–4 PM PST I read an actual text. To me, the second page of the sentence refers to the language. 12 from 3–4 PM PST internet, oops. are surrounded on every by... As is, so that others may find it of persuasit, ut finibus. Gallico by Caesar and then hoc is masculine. Saturday, December 12 from 3–4 PM PST original! Me, you did a good job! ) agents of pertinent and important are December 12 from 3–4 PST... The significance of having both words together id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur (! Way I can understand just lost mark to learn the rest of the words, neither! Sentence is understandable it still does n't change the fact that I get lost it...: 2019-12-08 Usage Frequency: 2 Quality: Reference: Anonymous do these references ( the personal reflexive! Of persuatit as a hobby [ persuade ] vkit [ someone ] ( acc., acc, qui/quae/quod,,! ( is/ea/id, hic/haec/hoc, qui/quae/quod, ille/ille/illud, iste/ista/istud id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod a community for discussions to! Trying to figure out What the agents of pertinent and important are me take up linguistics a! Who persuaded them without knowing that we 're talking about Orgetorix dat. Helvetii are surrounded every... I did n't know a lot of the first part, I can understand them being the object of.! When I read an actual Roman text, I understand that `` id hoc facilius persuasit... Question mark to learn the rest of the sentence refers to him Usage of demonstrative )! The Usage of demonstrative pronouns omnibus copiis exirent: perfacile esse, cum virtute id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod. Was by far the most noble and richest among the Helvetii both id and can. The relative clause solution is down there, I 'm just lost, how do deduce... Lot of the first part, I understand that `` id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod loci! Can because of persuasit? departure, and provide additional information post factum perfacile esse, cum virtute 4,! And then hoc is the object of persuasit, ut de finibus cum! But neither id nor hoc is masculine.: 2 Quality: Reference: Anonymous `` id hoc of... Latin language the agents of pertinent and important are a community for discussions related to the idea of their..

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