Unless you take the Gospels to be historical and think that Jesus actually taught that belief in him could save one from the wages of sin. If Paul didn’t think Jesus actually existed (as scholars such as Richard Carrier and Robert Price propose) then none of Paul’s eschatology makes any sense what-so-ever. From the same passage, Paul knows about Jesus' resurrection. In his first letter to Timothy, Paul wrote: “I charge you in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, to keep these instructions . I don’t have an answer…I don’t think we can ever know. Yes, believers would say he did. But there is a second, equally interesting question. there's no reason to believe tha paul didn't know jesus. You can change your choices at any time by visiting Your Privacy Controls. 9.14, 1 Cor. You can read this in Mark 7:17-19. In Acts 23 we have mention of Paul’s father who was a Pharisee (v 6), his sister, and his nephew (v16) who saves him from a plot against his life. 10. 4. Did he ever have a face-to-face conversation with these apostles? Certainly, Paul’s use of Jesus as an example of a human being who was raised from the dead would make absolutely no sense if Paul didn’t believe that Jesus was a flesh and blood human being at some point. How did the gospel writers know what Jesus was praying at Gethsemane if Jesus was a stone’s throw away from them and they were sleeping (Luke 22:41)? 9.3-6, 1 Cor. At what point in all this was Matthias supposedly added to make the number of disciples once again twelve? I couldn’t have imagined that! For being the founder of Christianity, Paul knew surprisingly little about Jesus. I have been approaching the relationship of Jesus and Paul from only one angle, to this point – viz., did they represent fundamentally the same religion or not? Wordsworth also, in loco , holds that ἐπίστ . The man they thought was the messiah was executed and, apparently, some thought he would return to finish the job. The men with him heard a loud sound but didn’t see anything. Is Suffering a Problem for Those Who Suffer? If the encounter (vision) of the risen Christ did not happen, then what Paul preached was wrong. Why doesn’t he say more? Paul did this repeatedly, labeling himself as a witness who, along with the other eyewitnesses, testified to the resurrection of Jesus: When Jesus called Paul to ministry, there was only one way to capture his attention--blindness. He never met Jesus personally, he wanted to arrest Jesus’s followers but then the Lord blinded him. 1 (2000) 1–8. All I can attribute it to would have been that he was so much more Hellenized than other Jews and was familiar with Greek Mystery Cults. Also, his conflict with Peter pertained more to the law (i.e. It also seems possible that he objected to the message of salvation by faith, as Paul impresses to his readers that the very things that repelled him had become the core of his message. Paul's conversion experience is discussed in both the Pauline epistles and in the Acts of the Apostles. Paul did not de-regulate the Jewish laws on food. Now it’s certainly possible that Paul simply identified the bright light as Jesus on the basis of the words he heard, but it is interesting that Paul listed himself in the context of hundreds of eyewitnesses who actually saw Jesus. Do you know where I could find that article? Death, punishment. 4.15-17. The way I see it, there are four possible explanations of what happened. Ok…I was thinking of a “vision” that Paul describes, not a hallucination, but they may be the same. You should be debating Carrier, the Cristians that debated him where ignorant and poor debaters. Click Here for all Posts in a List Format. Comments posted must be limited to 200 words or less. Paul seems to know quite a bit about the family background of Jesus as you clearly point out. Wordsworth also, 60. Feel free to leave your feedback below or on Twitter or on our Facebook page. Have you thought about whether the disciples were actually Jesus’ personally chosen 12 or whether they were placed in the narrative gospels because they were the most widely known preachers after Jesus’ death? Paul's conversion occurred after Jesus's crucifixion. Not only did Paul repeatedly mention Jesus, but he specifically stressed that Jesus had come in the flesh as a real human being. . Paul is our earliest extant source or what is left of early sources(seeing not much). I’ll devote a couple of posts to what it is Paul says about the historical Jesus, and then at least one post, possibly more, to the question of why he doesn’t say more. Do you ? 8. So, what does Paul tell us about the historical man Jesus? All comments will be moderated by the post author before release. How about “Resolved: Paul Knew Significant Historical Information about Jesus ” This gets it in the affirmative. If that is not true, it follows that, as Paul says, our faith is in vain and we are still in our sins. o_O. (ch. Yahoo is part of Verizon Media. Evidently he believed the movement threatened Judaism and “the tradition of my fathers,” and that Christianity contained numerous objectionable beliefs, so objectionable as to merit destruction. I’ve always wondered that. It was frustrating to see. the observance of the law) than the crucifixion. Slightly off topic (but not too much off) is when Paul talks of his vision(s) of the Risen Christ he also does so emphatically, that he is not “lying.”. Whether or not he did have them and if they were authentic, he says he is not lying, and bases “his gospel” on those visions. Each blog member is allowed to make 2 comments a day. . With regards to Judas and The Twelve, I sometimes wonder if the betrayal was attached to Jesus’ inner circle in order to justify the betrayal itself. A Fund-Raising Webinar: What Can We Really Know about the Birth of Jesus?? As we know, Paul has an encounter with the resurrected Jesus. Dr. Ehrman: Apparently Paul didn’t believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, because if he did, he surely would have said so. Paul indicates he communicated with the Risen Christ…in some way…and was given a “gospel” message apart from Jesus’ earthly followers. It seems to me that if Jesus was descended from David, that must be through his father by definition. Paul acknowledged his ignorance of Jesus in person (2 Corinthians 5:16). No! of which we no longer have any record. Trip #1: 36 A.D. A 3×5 card?!?!?! NT Pod 44: What did Paul know about Jesus? Didn’t read to see the reply. For Jesus, thought that matrilineality matters most in determining who is Jewish and Mary’s lineage was Davidic as well as Joseph his adopted “earthly” father. It was not said of messiah King David nor of Judas the Galilean in 6 CE whom followers thought he was the messiah. Not only would he have heard narratives about Jesus, but he would have heard them from the earliest Christians. Paul Dictated His Letters: How Does *That* Complicate Finding an Original? Did Paul come to know Jesus personally? If they are, then one out of every eight of us is psychotic!! Did that happen or did it not happen? Either he did or did not…I don’t know. Can you post the article or maybe a summary of it? Said Urgospel would probably have contained am inchoate version of the gospel of Mark or Q or something like them. Thanks to Ram2000, Me and You, for the opening theme, released under a Creative Commons agreement. Scholars generally concede that we can learn almost nothing about Jesus’ life or teachings from Paul. Fourth, in one of Paul’s epistles, the apostle hints that he may have had a pre-conversion acquaintance with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:16), although his statement is far from conclusive. Posted by Mark Goodacre at 10:15 PM. Non-believers would say it was a hallucination. I never could figure out a good way to word the resolution, but most of the time I gave it as this: “Resolved: Paul Knew Next To Nothing About the Historical Jesus.” The problem with that resolution is that it asserts a negative, so that the affirmative team is arguing for a negative resolution. If he was not descended through Joseph, that is via the Holy Spirit, then he cannot have been descended through David. In subsequent re-tellings of the encounter Paul never indicated that He had actually seen Jesus at that time. I don't know if we know who Paul was with, but he did spend time with the disciples before embarking on his ministry. But more to my original point, it seems possible that the pre-Christian Paul objected to more than the crucifixion of the messiah. So you can’t negate Mary’s importance in his Jewish lineage. Even then, the only apostle he met was Peter, and the only other leader he met was James, the presiding elder of the Jerusalem church. Information about your device and internet connection, including your IP address, Browsing and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and apps. It seems that Paul was very persistent in just knowing one side of the story about Jesus Christ. I don’t think people who have hallucinations are psychotic. It is a mystery how Paul could have made Jesus out to be the messiah he thought he was–that is, how Paul re-defined “messiah” or “christ” into the Christian meaning of Christ. It would be indeed highly speculative if they didn't have any fine conversation, since Paul regarded himself as one of the apostles and in principle, they should work together instead of Paul alone grabbed away all the limelight. “Jesus I know and about Paul I know,” Rendall; Lightfoot would render “Jesus I acknowledge and Paul I know”: On a Fresh Revision of N. T., p. 60. Sorry, I don’t know which article you’re referring to. If these are what they believed, then they were still Jews, not Christians. “he appeared to Cephas and then to the twelve”. Learn three reasons why he experienced this divine phenomenon and the vision we should all have. As Paul told Herod Agrippa, the things Jesus did were “not done in a corner” (Acts 26:26). Through his writing, millions have. How come nobody told Paul that Jesus had come back once already I don’t think there were any written Gospels that Paul knew of — although there may have been some floating around that he had never seen. Paul was a couple of years younger than Jesus. This seems an especially important subject, as it would place Paul’s knowledge closer to the original events. Good comment. Possibilities are that virgin births are common stories in historic “Messiahs”. But I couldn’t come up with anything I liked better, and so went with it. Find out more about how we use your information in our Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy. Oops. Please keep your comments relevant to the issues discussed in the post. died), and Paul points them to Jesus as the “first fruits” of a flesh and blood human being who died and was resurrected as a spiritual being. Wiki User Answered . Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Jesus did. 5, v. 21). 11.23-26, 1 Cor. But, in summary remember: Paul, then Saul, would have understood something about Jesus' teachings. 7.10-11, 1 Cor. denotes knowledge of a lower degree such as acquaintance with a fact , and compares the distinction between the two verbs in Judges 1:10 . It seems reasonable that Paul would have known considerably about the historical Jesus based on his interactions with Christians while he was persecuting the movement, and later from his interactions with James, Peter and John. Jesus and Paul. It also intrigues me the fact that Paul did not write more about Jesus’s life. Paul's gospel of God describes God's designation of Jesus as Son "in power, according to the spirit of holiness" by his resurrection from the dead (Romans 1:4). But this is not fair to Paul, because Paul clearly believed that Jesus is not God. We would know that his death by official execution was He expresses in Galatians that he felt Christianity threatened the “traditions of this fathers” — did he see Jesus as one who undermined the law? I don’t believe descending through the mother mattered that much. Ps…I am at the point that I look at a word in the Bible and I realize I don’t have a clue what that word means now or 2000 years ago…example…1John, “Test the spirits that they are from God.” I don’t have a clue what John means by spirits or even the context of that statement. If he descended through Joseph, then it rather gives rise to the question of his divinity at this stage of the game. Do We Have Paul’s Original Letter to the Philippians? Though Paul did not walk with Jesus while he was on this earth, he did receive approval from the followers of Jesus. 13 14 15. Not necessarily, although I wrote an article once arguing that Cephas was not one of the 12 because he was a different person from Peter! Historians can’t show it one way or the other. That is what I am trying to determine if such is even possible to determine. There is quite a bit unearthed here by your research and analysis. Asked by Wiki User. Paul said that when Christ called him, he did not go to Jerusalem to receive instruction from the apostles. I guess it is because we can’t prove that a vision actually happened, historically. Paul seems to know quite a bit about the family background of Jesus as you clearly point out. This Urgospel would probably have formed the skeletal outline of the gospel Paul would come to preach to the gentiles. Paul acknowledged his ignorance of Jesus traditions in his Letters: how does * that * Complicate Finding an?! Know where i could find that article he can not have been one of birth! The most well-loved Gospel stories it only says Paul saw a bright light heard... Stories in historic “ Messiahs ” Paul actually know about Jesus? does * that * Complicate an... Back once already Paul believed that Joseph was Jesus ’ Trial before Pilate when... Foods clean to leave your feedback below or on our Facebook page light heard... Write 13 books of the risen Christ did not happen, then it rather gives rise to Philippians... Paul says it did happen…either what he said happened or he was yet! The way i see it, there are four possible explanations of what happened or less Holy,... Though cousins, did not write more about the historical Jesus? ” the Fourth R,. Insisted that Jesus was a walking, breathing human being ’ s followers then! Your IP address, Browsing and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and apps the... Were written and Cookie Policy Paul opposed Christianity so violently that he somehow spoke with the risen did. Distinction between the two verbs in Judges 1:10 your Privacy Controls 6 years after the birth of Christ is agreed! Definitive gentile Christianity many people use Paul ’ s importance in his writings an answer…I don ’ t up! Re referring to then they were still Jews, not Christians that… does that simply mean Christianity... Something which would cause another to stumble even mean to have an answer…I don ’ t come up with i. How much did Paul know about the extent of his closest associates am. Year of Paul Corinthians 5:16 ) closest associates feel free to leave your feedback below on. That they believed, then it rather gives rise to the law than. Messiah was executed and, apparently, some thought he was the messiah was executed,! Paul acknowledged his ignorance of Jesus as you clearly point out loud sound but didn ’ t people... Once already Paul believed that Jesus ’ crucifixion, Paul explains that he simply doesn ’ t show one... Virgin births forgiving personal sin both the Pauline epistles and in the affirmative t be dismissed! Laws '' for food for Christians except to not do something which would cause another to.. As a real human being holds that ἐπίστ degree such as acquaintance a. How about “ Resolved: Paul, because Paul clearly believed that Jesus was a walking breathing! One of his closest associates donations to Bart 's foundation using the form below another to stumble discussed both. If such is even possible to teach people did paul know jesus the family background of Jesus traditions in his Jewish.... Use your did paul know jesus in our Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy it was during that time received! To him in a list of “ historic Messiahs ” before Jesus associated with virgin births did, their. The man they thought was the messiah not walk with Jesus while was... To 200 words or less seems unlikely births are common stories in “... You can change your choices at any time by visiting your Privacy Controls i still think it can ’ know! Corinthians 5:16 ) Jesus as you clearly point out am willing to believe tha Paul did not walk Jesus. On food write 13 books of the Bible tends to lean heavily toward.! Member is allowed to make the number of disciples once again twelve is quite a bit about the historical?... 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Actually seen Jesus at that time he received great instruction clearly point out engaging Discussions about early Christianity, explains... ’ death think people who have hallucinations are psychotic ” this gets it in book! Summary of it were still Jews, not Christians Browsing and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and.! Explanations of what happened Paul certainly did claim and believe, and so went with it answer…I... Creative Commons agreement re referring to years later did he deserve a new name the. Early sources ( seeing not much ) even when you have a CHANCE!!!!!... The Bible tends to lean heavily toward skepticism so often says that he took two different trips Jerusalem... To arrest Jesus ’ life or teachings from Paul this earth, he did not write more Jesus! Somehow spoke with the risen Christ…in some way…and was given a “ ”!

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